My first official post on WordPress. Took me long enough.
No it’s not a story.
Some of you will be offended (I recommend Sprite)
Some of you will be amused.
When you’re done with all of that, perhaps you can set aside all that emotion and reason with me? Perhaps?
I have never laid claim to complete sanity of mind (My very first blog post attests to this: Welcome To My Very Own Madness.).
Come. Let’s talk for a bit. Not asking you to agree. Hell, I’m not even sure I agree with me. But just think; push the boundaries of that box a little.
Sometime in January (Or February, I forget which exactly) I was talking with a friend of mine who’s been trying to get in my pants for as long as I remember (Some guys are tireless sha. If you’re reading this :*) and he asked me a question I didn’t have an answer to or an opinion about which was strange because I pretty much have an opinion on almost everything. We were talking about fidelity in marriage and relationships and he asked me this, “Since men and women are so different, does it make sense that we are held to the same standards?”
Pause.
Hold off with the stones first and hear me out will you?
My conditioned mind wanted to start reeling off reasons as to why it made sense but my logical/analytical mind did not let me. I told him that I didn’t have an answer for him, that I’d like to sit on it for a bit and then get back to him.
Since then I’ve been ruminating on it and I’ve decided to throw it out here.
What do you think?
Men are mostly physical. Women are emotional. So maybe, just maybe in a relationship it’s okay if the guy ‘strays’ once in a while? It’s naturally easier for us women to remain faithful so maybe it’s not fair to ask the guys to be completely faithful as well since it doesn’t come so easily to them?
Since men have better spatial ability and therefore make better drivers, perhaps in a car accident involving two cars, one driven by a man and the other a woman, the man should be held more responsible? He is after all supposedly a better driver by nature.
Just the other day, my aunt made a remark that she thinks God holds women more responsible (or punishes them more) for adultery. That is, if a husband and wife both cheat, the woman gets punished more. While there is no specific biblical reference that proves this, the case of the adulterous woman whom Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning comes to mind. Where were the guys she had supposedly slept with? Why was she the one being brought out for stoning? Perhaps she was being held to a higher standard by the people?
Perhaps when convicted of a crime, the sex of the offender should be taken into account before sentencing? Since different sexes are susceptible to certain crimes?
Please note that I’m not arguing inequality here (card carrying feminists and chauvinists run along now, no cause here). I’m merely probing differentiation. Since we’re wired differently, perhaps we should have different corresponding set of rules? The way your microwave and your freezer both have separate manuals even though they are both electrical appliances.
Of course there’d be some basic common rules but…
Perhaps I haf totally crase?
D A N I A 
*sigh* you people just keep making my mind twist more and more.
Over the last two weeks, blog post and twitter have given me many things to ponder. Unfortunately I don’t have time to write completely. So it’s all pushed in the back of the oven. Thanks for adding more :|
This is definitely something to think about.
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*sighs*
Dania, don’t get the likes of Panda and I on this.
Tears are gonna fall.
I just love how you write, how you rationalize things.
Personally? I don’t care too much for Fidelity.
I believe most men don’t have it in them, anyways.
A lot of girls give me the side eye and them some when I say that I can’t see myself leaving my husband for cheating on me. (Esp if we have children and I know in my heart he truly does LOVE me and it’s not a habit). Men are natural hunters and my mind has been conditioned from my days of puberty to understand the dynamics of how it all works out.
However, be rest assured that he would be punished, accordingly.
I may be a bit loony or slightly head fucked, but guess what? I have my feet firmly planted on the ground.
A warm blooded MAN cheated on Halle Berry.Ladies? Enough typed.
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U are one DEEP person..I shall be back
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Some things will forever remain a source of debate..this being an example. I’m not sure I have an opinion on this. You have salient points but if it were that simple surely some great mind would have arrived at this conclusion light years ago.
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I won’t lie, I thought the exact same thing.
But I decided to deem myself ‘one of the great minds’ :D
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Said I was gonna read it later…guess I cldnt help myself…I’ll try n b as brief as possible…
Most of Earth’s major civilizations hav been patriachal in nature, hence for certain (I dare say most) things, men seem to get let off a lot more easily than women (eg d adulterous woman case u mentioned)…however since dis is a matter of fidelity in marriage…I wld ansa ur friend’s qstn dis way…maturity n self control r asexual…it is a lack of both dat leads to infidelity…ergo both genders shld b judged equally…sorry twas still so long…
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I think I should say here that I don’t mind long sensible comments. So no need to apologise. Besides, its not even long.
That said, isn’t self control itself a function of gender? Isn’t it possible that a woman may naturally have more control than a man in certain areas and vice versa?
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i dont subscribe to many things said here, over generalisation perhaps but still worth thinking about. nice post
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Fidelity isn’t about just about the physical needs of a man, it goes to the root of a relationship. Having sex can be deeply emotional and it’s very painful to have to share that. There are certain obvious differences btw men and women e.g body and physical abilities, however our mental and spiritual capacities are d same. It deals with the inner person. Therefore we should be held to the same standards.
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I agree.
But then it can even be argued that our mental capacities are not necessarily the same. Equal perhaps in ‘quantity’ but not in ‘quality’
Our spiritual capacities should be the same. But hasn’t it ever been said that women are the more spiritual beings by nature of their being drawn to that which is ’emotional’ or ‘intangible’ for want of better words?
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DEEP. Brb
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Yes u have totally crase. We knew dat alredy… Dat aside. I dnt bliv we shud hav different “manuals”, however I bliv we shud behave as per d conscience of each individual.
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i think it all boils down to social conditioning, we (21st century men) have been conditioned to believe that we’re randy, horny creatures and that having multiple sexual partners is a sign of strength rather than weakness. THATS JUST BULLSHIT. I agree with sawyerr on this one, we all have the potential to be faithful and monogamous as long as we choose to develop self control….nice one dania….thought provoking as usual….even tho i woulda preferred the usual ‘sad story’ lol…
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I hate to push boundaries and I’m extremely conservative (or perhaps to an extent) but lately…*insert deep sigh here* I have never though about it from this angle, it is worth checking out and ur argument for the case is very strong.
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All hail her royal greatness Ada!
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Lol! *smug look* *waves*
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In reply to Ada, if women were indeed more spiritual, why is it that in both the Bible and the Qur’an, men were always chosen as prophets and spiritual leaders while women performed the drudge work?
Saying there is a difference in quality is frankly insulting to whatever sex u think has the inferior mental capacity.
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Maybe because men are perceived to be ‘natural’ leaders?
I don’t mean quality as per one superior and the other inferior. I merely refer to a difference in the make up; hormones, testosterone…
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Ada! I just love more, all over again!!!
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Ada, I just love you more, all over again!!! :*
As far as I go, men do take the mickey with fidelity… Wherever did society get the idea that it’s ‘permissible’ & less of an offence (as compared to women), for men to cheat/be unfaithful…? Anyway, if I were to dwell on this at the moment, I won’t stop going on & on, as to why its absolute crap!…x
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Great job Ada. This is going to be a long one. I apologise in advance. Let me first state that when it comes to issues such as this, general rules don’t apply. We can only make conjectures cause circumstances vary. As much as I’ll like to hold on to my “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander” view, our society has already made that distinction for us. We are inundated daily with stories of cheating husbands, heck, it has almost become a routine. A woman who leaves her husband because of infidelity is likely to be frowned upon as being stupid and unforgiving. But a cheating wife is often times looked at as downright evil. Well, it could be argued that most women are incapable of having sex without involving emotions unlike their male counterparts. Hence, sleeping around for a man may not mean he loves you any less. Personally, I go into relationships with this mindset: “I trust you, but I wouldn’t have a heart attack if I find out you’re cheating”. And I’ll add that contrary to what a lot of girls believe, NOT ALL MEN CHEAT. Most do though for varying reasons. And some women do so too for equally varying reasons. Although, I don’t believe staying faithful is that difficult. When all is said and done, being cheated on by someone you care about deeply hurts as much for a woman as it does for a man. But the “abomination” label lingers more on a cheating woman than on a cheating man. Its not right or fair, but it is what it is *shrug*. It really is a man’s world *sigh*
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after a second reading lemme take a stab at this. its apparent that guys(adam) came first, even after eve ate the aple, adam was questioned so in one way guys are supposedly to be at the forefront of stuff but on the other hand the world has come a long way since and gender equality(i know this wasn’t the direct intent of your post) is being achieved and with that, ladies will take up more and more responsibility and thus will face more scrutiny and will be expected to reach same ‘standards as men. but hey what do i know, PERHAPS i am wrong.
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Ok. This post has fucked about with my mind enough to bring me back here. Even though I said I would let it stew for a post of my own.
Yes, I do think we should be held accountable to the same standards. BUT! I think our individual differences and reasons behind our actions should be taken into consideration when judgement is being passed. Does that sound oxymoronic? Maybe so. But bear with me.
For instance, let’s look at the subject of cheating. Samantha and I disagree in that she thinks everyone cheats. I think everyone has the proclivity to cheat. Not everyone does (for instance, I’ve never cheated). But I think that in a cheating situation, the reason should actually be considered. Was it cos he/she is just a cheat, period? Or were there other reasons? (I’ll talk about that when I have time to write very well.)
Women have been conditioned over time, to be subservient and faithful. If men were trained with the mindset that women are, then it’d be easier to keep his pants zipped. I grew up surrounded by at least 5 girls. That’s definitely played a part in how I turned out.
I want to say more, but there’s way too many things running through my head asking to be poured out. I’ll just mess about and write nonsense. I hope what I’ve written above made at least a modicum of sense sha…
Fuck! I hate uni! I need to find time to write about all this before I go mad…
Ok…bye now.
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LOL. Your head seems an interesting place. Perhaps I’ll have the oportunity to rummage inside it someday. Perhaps.
I agree, our social conditioning most definitely has a large role to play in this. But isn’t our social conditioning largely based on our biological conditioning?
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I will say that I too have pondered this very same question, but always come to the same response; for one argument there is a rebuttle, and in the end, who really wants to be cheated on anyway?
Its true that evolutionarily men want to “spread their seed” while women want to find a guy to take care of their kids, but if we’re delving into that pool we might as well take it all into account. So let the men run around around and have sex with everyone they want…but then are they going to be willing to pay child support for every baby that they have? In middle eastern societies, men can have multiple wives, but only if he is able to pay for each and every one of them. They must be treated equally; he buys a necklace for one, he buys a necklace for all. I doubt every twenty something year old guy would be able to handle that working some entry level job for 40,000 a year.
And what about safety? The more people sleeping around, the more the risk of the spread of disease.
Then comes the issue of jealousy. People in general, male and female, are jealous. Men are actually by nature more jealous than women, because if a woman cheats and has a baby, there is the issue of paternity. However, its not right to say that woman in general will be able to just get over a husband or boyfriend who constantly cheats because he isn’t satisfied with her, as a partner, as a lover, as a woman. Women have for centuries dealt with the humiliation and the pain of watching the person she loves take pleasure in someone else. If it was totally okay with everyone, or even with the general population, then why would it have ever changed?
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This is gonna be quite long, but since u’v given me liberty to be sensibly verbose, no wahala.
First of all Ada lemme make it clear dat altho biological make up is important, anyday anytime it is trumped by socio-environmental conditioning. Lemme break it down a little. For instance (2Face beat begins to play) even tho a human is a human n he has all d biological traits of a human, if he is raised by wolves, he will act like a wolf. This has been proven wit empirical data to back it up.
You see, fundamentally it’s mind over matter. Biologically when a dog wants to urinate, it simply does so. If TRAINED properly, it can give it’s owner a sign dat it needs to go out. The power of d mind supercedes all others, even biological. So it’s how ur mind is conditioned dat counts, not necessarily ur biological make up. It’s d same reason y som ppl will choose to be chaste n others won’t, shebi na all of us get hormones na.
Also, I alredi stated earlier dat we live in a patriachal society, n dat even d Jews of old did as well, dat’s y der’s a certain premium placed on manhood. N cos of dis, men r led to believe dat dey can get away wit certain things. D Ashanti had a different view bout women, so deir men n women behaved differently from d average man n woman.
So essentially, wat I’m sayin is, if d societal mental programmin makes cheatin seem excusable to men, den men WILL cheat. If it is frowned upon, altho som still will,but a lot less won’t. Cos like Panda said, we all hav an inherent tendency to walk d path of infidelity. But ultimately it is d conditionin of ur mind dat determines if u will succumb to ur biological proclivities or not. Arigato gozaimasu…*drops mic n rides into d sunrise…hehehehe*
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I’m glad you decided to pick up the mic. This is one of the best arguments I’ve seen here.
However, the story of the Ugly Duckling comes to mind. It was socially conditioned to be a duck because it was raised amongst them. But it never fit because biologically, it was not a duck.
Perhaps this is the reason we struggle so much? We’re being conditioned to be what we’re really not?
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Well, in my opinion, we Do have to be held by the same standards. I disgree with the panda on the reasoning behind the cheating being taken into consideration though. I mean, we’ve all been raised by different standards, but there’re no laws of any form anywhere (at least, not that I’ve heard of) religious or otherwise, that take those different standards, background, sex, hormones, etc into consideration. The only clauses that come to mind and even then only in the case of murder are insanity and self-defence. Saying men and women should be ‘judged’ differently is like saying the well brought up thief and the one from a poor, deprived background should be judged differently. Tah!
I’m however with the Panda on the point that NOT all men cheat or are randy. I’ve never either and always resent that extremely over-hyped statement. The generalisation alone negates it already. I believe the media and those who control it are to blame. Sex and sexuality are paid way too much attention and with men being the major targets in this onslaught of the mind, it’s no wonder the average ’21st century man’ has turned out the way he has. Talk about mass-brainwashing! Sad stuff
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Interestingly, everyone seems to have focused on the fidelity issue.
Perhaps we should set that aside and look at others. Issues with emotional ties never make for sound logical reasoning.
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*wails* why am I not as smart as all of you? I want!!!
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Hmmm,really generalising only makes it more confusing….I don’t think men and women are the same.that’s my opinion.men are not only made to believe dey can get away with certain things BUT they DO get away with them.if ur a guy,and u don’t cheat,really ur the only one that knows that.and if u don’t say it,nobody cares.u can’t tell me solomon in d bible was immature because he had plenty wives,d only reason God even punished him was for worshipping idols.We are wired differently because we are different.I won’t be happy if my husband cheats,but I won’t get a divorce for that,even though I knw I could be thrown out of the house if I cheated…crazy yea,but that’s just the way it is I guess.
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Panda & Mallam Sawyer have painted the big picture& its mostly accurate. Nurture over nature.
I feel each relationship must determine its own rules. partners know each others proclivities, except one of them is lying to herself\himself.
P.s. One question we haven’t settled; is sex ever more than just physical
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*stops to ponder* *sigh* I only got as far as the 1st 5 commments or so,I’m in love w/ GidiMallam already.
I love the way you have presented this,I’ll be back when I’ve gotten my thoughts in order and have read the post thread properly
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Sux that I couldn’t get to all the comments… lazy on abundant words with little paragraphing. Blame the glasses.
Nothing in life is absolute. Even men are not all same. I’ve met men who claim they can’t love more than one woman at once. I can. And many other men I know too.
But here’s my opinion – there is no answer to this riddle:
NO LAW/PRINCIPLE/THEORY APPLYING TO HUMANS WOULD EVER BE TOTALLY CORRECT/FAIR/EXPEDIENT.
Shikena!
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What makes us human and separates us from animals, is not just our DNA it’s our ability to conquer our natural instincts. There’s nothing more i can say that hasn’t already been said. So now i want to play the devil’s advocate.
We’ve all heard the “nurture over nature” argument, but in my opinion we totally underestimate the power of our natural instincts. To buttress my point, let’s take the example of obese people, people who are obese more often than not, have the natural tendency to be fat, while some have the mental strength to fight their cravings others are not. These people know the being overweight is “bad” (it could kill u) but they can’t help themselves because the struggle is herculean. Do we then label these ppl as lazy gluttons who choose not to take care of themselves? Or do we sympathize with them and try to understand their struggle, even though they may relapse or backslide in their effort to lose weight? Anybody who’s struggled with weight issues would understand what I’m talking about.
We can relate this to men and their natural tendency to be promiscuous; while some men have the mental strength to be disciplined not all men have the capability for such resolve. It’s not fair generalizing that all men can choose to not CHEAT the same way it’s not fair that all fat ppl choose to not EAT.
NOTE: I’m just trying to push the walls of my “box” since everyone seems to be going the other way. BTW i hope i wasn’t off point.
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Aha. This, I love…
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LoL.ada, u have NOT totally crase.maybe partially tho.
Well.I’ve pondered on this sometime ago when my aunt supposedly cheated on her constantly cheating husband,nd gt served divorce papers nd the stigmaa attached to It from society.
I asked someone bout this and she said there are no standard laws that say women shd be held more accountable for some deeds but at the sametime women shd be very cautious especially when SEX is involved as WE are the ones that “TAKE IN” nd the men GIVE.I’ve always looked at sex spiritually so it made sense at the time.
So I guess she was tryin to say that the implications of infidelity are worse on women, being the receivers.
As kariba.I’m not sure I hav an opinion of this myself.but just thot I shd putt this out there.:)
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Ada,u neva cease to amaze me n no ur nt crazy. Guess d whole standard ish startd from d garden of eden lik sum1 said earlier n all thru d new testament. Women were supposed to ve a higher moral responsibilty to d society dan d men. no one blames men for adultery bt a woman wit more dan one husband was a prostitute. Jst lik u Ada,I ve always thot we shud all be held by d same standards bt d world isn’t wired dt way n from where do we begin to change it. Is it from d old peeps in d villages who stil tink a woman s only job is in d kitchen n to procreate. Woman who wish to be leaders r even regarded as a joke n no one wants to vote for dem,even d women folk. I guess this is jst one of d many issues,u ponder abt n can’t rily do much abt. Men are complex beings n dey r jst wired dt way, if a man is found cheatn,his frds hail him bt hardly wud any woman come up to say her frds dt she s cheatin on her hubby,unless dey were all doin d same. All in all,Its a man’s world. #Nuff said
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in as much as we females may like to claim otherwise, the truth is men and women are not (and most likely will never) be judged on the same standards. as much as the feminists out there will like to say otherwise, it really and truly is a man’s world. i have struggled with this ideaology myself, but i knew i had to accept the difference in standards when i found myself making a particular statement i abhor ‘na woman driver’…
the truth is that women will always get more backlash from cheating than men, never mind that recent surveys show that women actually cheat more than men. its just far more acceptable for a man to cheat… especially married men. will the wife go back to her parents house because her husband had an affair? even her mother will tell her that as long as he doesnt bring the woman home, its all good. i have several married friends who cheat on their wives regularly, to them its not even a big deal anymore. and you cannot tell me that the wife is clueless… but she’s probably thinking that as long as he uses protection and caters to her every whim, she’s ready to look the other way.
i’m not an advocate for infidelity. ive been cheated on and i have cheated, there is nothing nice about it. But my point is, on so many different levels, especially on the issue of fidelity, men and women cannot be judged equally, men always have the benefit of the doubt, maybe in our children’s children’s life time, it trully will be what is good for the goose, is good for the gander, but for now, it is what it is, a man’s world.
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Well…even if nothin else comes out of dis…d fact dat Chinny says she loves me is enuf…now I can die happy…woohoo…*dougies*
On a serious not tho…I respect @scarrena’s DA argument…very sound (mor so cos I’m on d bad side of d weight loss argument)…but I think dat applies to both sexes…n not jus guys…like Ada said it’s a case of our conditionin makin us who we aren’t.
N @bumblebee…forgerrit…when it came to women Broda Solo was terribly immature bout it…for cryin out loud 300 wives n 700 concubines…haba na…na only am dey dis world…
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*sigh*
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HAhaha. Its stereotypical at best and….(No words for it) at worse. As for adultery in the old testament both culprits are to be taken outside the camp to be stoned. And just like u mused I’ve mused in my 30some years why our society has become parochial. As in the case of the woman in the new testament. Someone most definitely misinterpreted the bible and the eating of the fruit! I’m no theologian but there are 2 accts of creation. Continue musing tho I particularly like holding the guy responsible for accidents! Rotfl
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You got great points there, that’s why I always love checking out your blog.
My blog:
meilleur taux et credit rachat de credit
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its as simple as this for me…. the rules of life r the same across gender/race/sexuality, etc… so why should you be judged differently just cause your ‘wired’ differently?! really guys, except if the ‘sins’ we are talking bout are not uniformly accepted but hey! you will agree that cos cheating hurts the ‘cheated’, it has been classified under n popularly accepted as ‘wrong’ sooooooooo whoever cheats, should face the wrath.! but Alas! another trip is the fact that the ‘purnishment’ for ‘sins/wrongs’ like this is per the ‘cheated’…it is relative to the person dt was cheated on sooooo again, the variation as to whether the purnishment should be dished out on a case by case bases comes up again…… *sigh* soooo i say, as complex as humans r, everytin dt relates to humans, which isnt clear cut or dsnt written down rules n regs. will have variations and differences….. so the way out, Just Live a Fair and Just Life and Treat People Fairly….also Dont expect Every1 to ‘work’ the way you do cos as Dania has said, we are all WIRED differently…..even within d female specie sef……
p.s @Dania, im digging this blog.
p.p.s @C.Panda……..helloooooooooooooooo :)
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*aherm*
As I write this comment, I’m listening to Dwele’s “Brandi”. Beautiful song. Albeit totally unrelated to my comments.
Anyways, I read this post and I’ve decided to look away from infidelity and try to come at this from a different position.
*aherm* Get your kinda outta the gutter please. :P
Anyways,
I agree that men and women are wired differently. And in truth, I think that it should be taking into consideration whenever something happens.
Take me for instance. I’m an extremely rational person. I think things through carefully, and rarely ever let emotions cloud my judgement. Ask any ex girlfriend over had. They’ll tell you how annoying it is. But because of that, I hold myself completely responsible from my actions. Because I know myself, and so I’m expected to be able to find a way to handle things appropriately.
the same thing with men and women. The fact that we’re wired differently doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be held equally accountable for our actions. Because, in that ‘sink or swim” way, we’ve all learned how to adapt and how to handle things in our own ways.
Am I making an ounce of sense here?? Okay, that will be all.
Yaaaaaaaaaannnksssss!!!!! I miss you o!!
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I can’t seem to properly browse this post from my iphone!!!!
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love, you have indeed totally crase! I do not think that the fact that people are wired differently should mean a different set of rules. The principle of mitigating circumstances and the insanity plea provide for genuine cases of ‘It was the Devil’s handwork’. For everything else, people, regardless of gender, should be held fully accountable for their actions.
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